rc: >The problem with Tedd's observation in my opinion is that for the most >part, geese seem to be the main ones using it. Others just clump along. Or >ovoid. Many migratory birds use the V shape. But, even if it is was just one species, the number of species that fly in a V doesn't affect the algorithm or claim. >Tedd wrote: >>It just goes to demonstrate that when birds are flying somewhere >>specific, all they have to do is to figure out where the center of >the flock is, fly towards it, while keeping a certain distance from >the others. AND they will naturally form a V.<< > >I disagree completely with the assumption of -natural- V formation, >particularly drawing this conclusion from a simulation. > >I can make my own boids version fly toward a place using an algorithm in >the pseudocode to direct the center of mass towards a point, and they will >-not- form a V. So you can't infer anything at all about natural behavior >from a simulation in this case. That is my point. Obviously your algorithm addresses the subject differently than mine, as such I would expect our programs to behave differently. But, that doesn't prove that a V in not natural (actually a V is natural). It only proves that you have not been able to get your birds to fly in a V -- but, most birds don't. So, maybe your algorithm is more fitting to sparrows and mine to ducks. Besides, I can't help it if you can't get your ducks in a row. :-) What I did notice about your version, is that some birds fly too close to the center and then suddenly fly away at speeds greater than any other birds fly (thus, the skeeter observation). I don't see that happening in nature* nor in the original boid program. So, you have added your own spin on the algorithm as I have. Nothing wrong with that, just an observation. However, my alteration of the program (the V) can be seen in nature. In any event, I find stuff like this fascinating. I hope I'm not annoying anyone. tedd * (other than with skeeters -- maybe you have discovered the skeeter algorithm) -- http://sperling.com