Jay sed [I snipped all the things that he posted, including a nice clear explanation of XREFs] jay When I read your post it all seemed so simple so clear. From time to time it does, however when I come down to try, well... That is why i stick to ToolBox stuff, just as tried and tested ;-) but I can manage it. Now I said that the XREF problem was with me, not with the XREFs, so my posting was destined to other fogeys like I who also had problems. I did not, do not, and will not intend to disparage XREFs. 'Cos I'm sure that they're powerful tools, which is why from time to time I try (honest) get shot down in flames and fall back on what works for me. jonathan